Heartland Daily Podcast

This is the Heartland Daily Podcast. The other day, h Sterling Burnett, director of the Heartland Institute's Arthur b Robinson Center For Climate and Environmental Policy, was a guest on the John Steigerwalt Show on AM 1250 The Answer in Pittsburgh. Sterling is a frequent guest of that excellent program. I was asked on to talk about Pennsylvania's plan to lean on solar and wind for future energy. As you might expect, Sterling explained how and why this is a bad idea, especially for resource rich Pennsylvania.

Have a listen.

Anytime you see him out in public, it's frightening to think of Joe Biden still being president 4 weeks from now, much less, 4 years from now. And that's just based on seeing how feeble and the manate he is. But thinking about, what he and the people who are pulling his strings will do if they get 4 more years in power is really scary, including when it comes to saving us all from climate change. H Sterling Burnett is director of the Center on Climate and Environmental Policy at the Heartland Institute, and he joins us now. Sterling, thanks for coming on.

It's been a while.

Yeah. Thanks for having me back. I didn't realize it had been since January since I was gone.

Wow. I'm gonna have to fire some people.

I'll do that on my account.

Well, anyway, the interior secretary, Deb Haaland, I guess, is how you pronounce her name, h a a l a n d. She announced a 5 year plan for offshore wind farms now. What could go wrong there?

Well, you know, they've been pushing this for, well, since Biden came to office, he wants to put up 30,000 megawatts, 30 gigawatts of offshore wind. What could go wrong? I don't know. Hurricane could float, so we knock them down. They could kill a lot of endangered species.

They could jack up your electric power price rates along the East Coast, which is where he's planning a lot of them. You know, other than that, nothing could go wrong. Well you know

You mentioned that go. Sorry. Go ahead.

No. No. No. You go ahead.

No. I was gonna ask you that, you know, you mentioned the the number of megawatts that that he's looking that they're looking for. How does that translate into the number of windmills we're gonna be, pleased to to have to look at?

Oh, 1,000. 1,000 of wind wind turbines. They haven't some of them, they don't even have the technology for because he wants to build additional wind turbines using floating turbines, so they're not anchored to the floor. The whole point is not a single one of them is necessary. There is not a single offshore wind turbine that's necessary.

They're the 2nd or first most expensive form of energy batteries are the only one that's even competitive cost wise as far as how high the prices are. They're really good at raking in money for green, for, you know, crony capitalist green energy companies, most of them foreign.

Mhmm.

To take taxpayer dollars and ratepayer dollars. But they if if they really think wind and solar are the way to go, they could build it on shore. But it it's where it's a lot cheaper. It's still not as cheap as coal, natural gas, nuclear, but, it's a lot cheaper than offshore wind. The only reason offshore wind has become a favorite is because they don't have to deal with property rights onshore.

They can just go to Joe Biden's federal government. He'll say, oh, I don't care if you kill endangered whales. We've been protecting since 1973. I don't care if you kill thousands upon thousands of of sea males that are protected by the Marine Mammal Protection Act, I'm gonna sign off. And then they do a a cursory environmental impact statement where it signs off on it despite the damage to the whales, and they begin construction.

They don't have to mess with the pesky property rights online. And they're just passing the cost. They're just passing the cost on to the ratepayer. At the same time as they're telling you, wind and solar are cheaper than coal and natural gas. Your rates are going up because they're not cheaper than coal and natural gas.

And we know that because we can look at where they're building wind and solar, and their rates are rising faster than than the states where they're sticking with coal and natural gas.

So the the people who are now dependent upon wind turbines are, we can see that their bills are not any lower. Their electric bills are not being helped by that at all in the places

where No. No. Not just not not just not lower. They are higher. The states with the highest amounts of wind and solar have the highest rates except Hawaii and Alaska, which are odd states because, well, you know, Hawaii is an island.

It doesn't have a lot of natural resources or ability to get some things there. And and Alaska, the same thing. But if you look at the states in the US, when you add wind and solar, you're adding cost to your rate pairs despite the fact that we're told it's cheaper than the other sources. So you don't find the highest rates in Kentucky and West Virginia. You find them in California and on the East Coast where they're bought into this wind and solar crap is cheaper.

Yeah. And I I just wonder the I don't how many people are actually what percentage of the population, I guess, is a better way to put it. What percentage of the population is really aware of just how ugly and intimidating the the the wind turbines are, until they see them. Because if if you haven't Yeah. If you haven't seen them, if you have and and there I'm sure there are huge parts of the country that where where there are no wind turbines yet.

Yeah. And there are people who have never really had driven down the road and all of a sudden seen a a wind turbine appear where there wasn't one and to see how gigantic and ugly they are. So I I think that Yeah. No. I wonder how much of a factor that is in people being maybe more passive about this than they should be.

The way the the the offshore ones they're talking about building are are taller than the, taller than the Statue of Liberty. On a clear day, you'll be able to see them 20 miles offshore. That's great for tourism. In Texas, we've got a lot of wind here in and we got a growing amount of solar in Texas because the government helps them out. But they don't build it in Dallas or Austin or Houston where they need the power.

They build it far out in West Texas where like you say, nobody sees it. So they don't understand how it's destroying view sheds and ecosystems. How it endangers birds and other animals. And like I said, higher rates. And more importantly, you know, more important than cost.

I I worry a lot about my energy prices. But you know what I worry about more? Reliability. My refrigerator has to work. My air conditioner during the summer has to work.

My lights have to come on when I flip the switch. My communication devices, whatever they are, whether it's the TV, the phone, they have to work 24 hours a day, 7 days a week if that's what I wanna use them. Wind and solar can't do that. You're praying to the to the gods for a good stiff wind and sunlight, not rain like we have here in in Dallas right now.

Before we get to the rest of this podcast, I wanted to let you know about 2 fantastic live podcasts Heartland produces every week. We'd love for you to join us every Thursday at 1 PM EST, noon CST live for our flagship in the tank podcast. You can watch on the stopping socialism TV channel on YouTube where you can participate in the show in the chat with other fans and also ask questions that we'll address on the air and put up on the screen. And every Friday, also at 1 PM Eastern and Noon Central Time, you can go to Heartland's main YouTube channel. Just search for the Heartland Institute on YouTube for the new Climate Realism Show.

Heartland's climate team of Anthony Watts, Sterling Burnett, and Linnea Lukin cover the crazy climate news of the week, debunk mainstream media myths about the so called climate crisis, crisis, dig into energy policy, and much more. The show often features guests that include some of the leading climate scientists and energy policy experts anywhere in the world. There is no show like it, so become regular live viewers of both of these programs if you are interested in smart, lively, fun, and interactive conversations. We hope to see you there every Thursday Friday afternoons at 1 PM Eastern and Noon Central at the stopping socialism TV and the Heartland Institute channels on YouTube. Oh, yeah.

We're also on Rumble. See you there.

Well, they're bragging about having built, an offshore wind industry from the ground. This is from their release about this plan, this 5 year plan. They were brag they're bragging about having built an offshore wind industry from the ground up after years of delay from the previous administration. Now it sounds like

about that.

Yeah. Go ahead.

Think about it. Doesn't that sound like the old Soviet Union? We have a 5 year plan?

Yep. Yep.

Yep. And and we, the government, has built up the industry. Yeah. Government create all sorts of industries. If they put enough taxpayer dollars into it and and it forced enough mandate, that doesn't make it a good idea.

Yeah. That's what I was gonna say. It sounds like

determine what's the best industries where resources, where capital should flow, not government. When government does it, typically, it's inefficient. It's something that couldn't compete otherwise, and that's precisely what they've done here. It's a creating industry that couldn't compete without government mandates and support.

Yeah. It sounds like it wouldn't have happened with, in the in a free market. This this This certainly wouldn't have.

Like I said, this is they even brag. We've gotta have a 5 year plan. This is the old Soviet's 5 year plan, and we know how well those things work.

Now they're talking about it's, where they will lease, these wind turbines. I guess they will lease the areas just like they do with oil, for where you're allowed to build these things. So, if this is gonna be the next big thing, I would think that Exxon and, and Shell and whoever else is out there selling oil and making, you know, for refining oil into gasoline, they'd be jumping all over this and investing money in it. Are they?

Well, one of the oil companies has in the past, BP, but they got out of it because it was a money loser. Shell, did it for a while, but they got out of it. Exxon's not. Exxon says we're an oil company.

So they're not an

oil company. They're not involved in it as far as I know right now. Who is involved in it here is Dominion Energy where the legislature is a wholly owned subsidiary of Dominion. So they passed rules that said, locals can't block, can't sue to stop all sorts of the ancillary onshore activities that must go on for these wind turbine. And no matter the cost, Dominion gets to pass it on to ratepayers.

Now that's the only real real sweetheart deal passed in New York, in New Jersey, and other places where they've done these things. They opened it up for bidding. And so companies always foreign company. Everyone except for Dominion, all the others are foreign companies. Orsted, I forget one of the others.

They're the big ones, the big players. And these foreign companies are gonna use, a lot of foreign equipment, to build these turbines. But guess what? They bid in. They they bid for a price.

Well, the cost of everything has gone up. Interest rates have gone up, equipment costs have gone up, you've got supply chain issues. So their cost are rising and they can't make a profit at the price they bid in. That was their raise your rates. But even with the higher rates, they've decided they can't make a profit.

And so now they're backing out and saying, you need to give us a new deal. You need

to give

us more money. Amazing. That that honestly, that's gonna probably be the Achilles' heel for the Biden administration's plans is, these companies can't build them unless you do what you do with Dominion and just say, it doesn't matter what it costs. We don't care what it costs. Build it and you'll get your money back.

Yeah. So in other words, the deal that they made sounded like a good deal in 20 21 maybe until inflation click kicked in and all the other economic issues. And so now it's just not good business, and it's not an attractive thing.

No. They're like I said, they're backing out. They they canceled they they they've already you know, he's talking but she's talking about leasing all these things. They've already leased. They leased.

They opened up, thousands of acres offshore. Big areas off of New York, New Jersey, parts of Massachusetts and Maine, Virginia. They've already leased it. And the and all except for the they're in Dominion, the companies are now backing out as fast as they can because they just can't build it and and and operate it at the price they bid in for.

And these places where you say that they've already leased it, if you're driving along the East Coast, are you gonna be able to see these?

Well, you would if they got them built, but they're not getting them built.

Well, it's something that's backing out. Yeah. But if they if the spot

On clear days. Yeah. On clear days, there's no question that you'd be able to see some of these turbines and the lines come in. It's not like you could just have a turbine and not have it connected to the grid. So you've got power lines along, under sea, but then they've gotta come on shore somewhere.

You've got big power transfer stations that they gotta build. And then you gotta have transmission lines running from those transfer stations to your power grid. I mean, that's what's happening in the west. Here in Texas, we build them all in the west. Well, okay.

So nobody in Dallas or Austin sees them, but you know what they do see? The huge transmission lines that have to now be shipped from far West Texas to Austin and Dallas. They have to build all that infrastructure. Of course, they lose power along those lines, so you're getting less power than is generated, delivered. It's it's a it's a it's a boondoggle.

It's good for the companies that are building them. They're making money hand over fist. It's good for the politicians who go out and virtue signal and say, I'm green. We're, like your governor. Oh, we're gonna do solar power, 50% solar power.

I'm I'm greener than thou. It's the only ones that's bad for is everybody else in the nation, our consumers, our ratepayers, our taxpayers.

Yep. And they and as I said, they haven't seen how ugly the windmills and the solar panels are unless they've been subjected to them, And they they have no idea unless you've been around them because I I was we have property up on Lake Erie and there's talk about using Lake Erie, by the way, for these things. And, the little town where our our place is, they decided to go with a lot of wind turbines. And And when you're driving down the road that you've driven down for all your life, a little road along the lake, and all of a sudden these windmills start popping up, It's like it's like Godzilla. They're unbelievably ugly and intimidating, and until you until they're in your neighborhood, you have no idea.

So anybody who thinks they want these things needs to take a little ride somewhere because where I'm sitting right now, I there are no windmills here in Western Pennsylvania that I'm aware of. There might be 1 or 2 popped up somewhere, but there's no, you know, field full of windmills. And I I I I'm

No. You know where they are in Pennsylvania? Mountain tops.

Yeah. Right.

They cleared they cleared forest. They cleared forest, carbon sinks that were they all they all say, oh, we love trees because they suck up carbon. They cleared forest to build wind turbines on mountain tops that only work 20 to 30% of the time.

Well, here in Pennsylvania, governor Shapiro, we're talking to Sterling Burnett of the, Heartland Institute. I have a couple minutes left here. I want to make sure I get in get this in. Governor Shapiro was happy to announce a couple of days ago that half of the state's agencies will be running on solar power in a few years from 10 new solar plants around the state. How how's that gonna work out?

You're gonna have the same problems you have everywhere else before they try these fiascos. You're gonna have outages. You're gonna have you know, if you love the service that government offices give you now, you're really gonna love it after their power shuts down and you're waiting you've been waiting in line for 40 minutes to to get your license renewed. Because it turns out, I looked into it, Pittsburgh is the 5th cloudiest city in the nation.

Yep. I was gonna put mention that. Yep.

It is the 5th that's a great place to let's have some solar panels up there in Pennsylvania where there's clouds all the time.

Yeah.

Really brilliant genius ideas these guys have. You know, you used to have a power system that was designed by engineers and function properly. Now you have this power system increasingly designed by politicians who aren't engineers, and you're having more and more breakdowns. California, they brag just last week. Well, we had 15 old minutes where almost the whole state was powered by solar.

Well, my refrigerator can't just run for 15 minutes a day.

No. No.

My lights can't just operate for 15 minutes a day when the solar happens to work. And what we know about California is they have more blackouts and brownouts than any other state in the nation.

Yeah. Well, here's I I have about a minute left. What you're not mentioning because you're a bad guy, Sterling, is that this is all gonna help prevent climate change. You didn't mention how much it's gonna help the climate change when Pennsylvania has half of the state running on, solar power. Isn't that gonna

cool cool the earth? It it won't cool the earth. In fact, when Holland is asked, before congress how much their plans are going to prevent, how much warming it's gonna prevent, she can't answer that question. But people have done calculations and it's something like 0.000 65 degrees a 100 years from now. In other words, something that can't be measured by thermometers.

Right.

So it does nothing for the climate because, well, you know what? Even if you thought c o two were causing dangerous climate change, you know who's pumping it out? Who's not shutting down coal plants? India, China, developing countries who want reliable they want what we used to have, reliable energy.

They wanna flip the switch and have the light come on.

That's right.

What a concept.

And and and so when we're huddling in the dark, freezing in the winter, sweltering in the summer with no lights to read by Yeah. Going back to gas lamps, the climate won't be saved.

That'll be good. I'll be dead, so I won't won't it won't affect me, but my my grandkids will be they can be safe and not have to worry about dying from whatever it is they're they're gonna die from from climate change. What a joke. Hey, Sterling. Always great to have you on to clear this stuff up.

I appreciate it. We'll talk again soon, I hope.

Take care, sir. I appreciate you having me on again. Take care.

Okay. That's Sterling Burnett, and he's the director on of the Center on Climate and Environmental Policy at the Heartland Institute. I'll be right back.