Heartland Daily Podcast

This is the Heartland Daily Podcast. The other day, h Sterling Burnett, director of the Arthur b Robinson Center For Climate and Environmental Policy at the Heartland Institute was a guest on the Steve Gruber show. Sterling was invited back on the program to talk about the effort by the Heartland Institute and others to stop a massive wind project off the shore of Virginia to protect the critically endangered right whale. If you appreciate this podcast and all the work we do at the Heartland Institute, please consider supporting us with a tax deductible donation. Just go to heartland.org and hit the donate button on the top of the page.

Now, onto the interview.

Back to it now here on the Steve Gruber Show. Listen. You can go to stevegruber.com. Send me an email of what's going on in your neighborhood, what's important to you. Big stories are always important as well.

So things like protecting the right whale. Do you know how they called it the right whale? Wasn't too big, wasn't too small, was manageable when they killed whales during the whaling industry of the 17th, 18th, 19th, and early 20th century. The right whale. Whale is being killed, people claim, by being disturbed by these massive wind turbines and creating big problems.

Do we have him ready?

I have him on ECAM. We can go by ECAM.

Alright. So Sterling Burnett's joining me, director of the Arthur Robinson Center on Climate and Environmental Policy at the Heartland Institute. Institute. Sir, good to have you back on the program. Alright.

So Dominion Energy Atlantic Coast Offshore Winds Project, that's quite a name, by the way, being delayed by a by a lawsuit saying, look, you're killing the right whale, of which nobody's quite sure, but the estimates are always between 23 100 individuals. The right whale was hunted to death. Pretty close. Pretty close. So if these wind turbines are creating these vibrations, which is we know how whales communicate, and it's causing them to die, then this is a pretty simple thing.

The endangered species act of 1972 is quite clear. Then you can't do this. Right?

Right. If if it's an oil company, this would have been halted before it ever got off the ground. This is expedited by the Biden administration. Now to be fair, the government says there's no evidence that all these whales washing up on shore and all the ones that we don't even know about because they don't wash up on shore. They just sink to the bottom of the sea.

They're not being killed by the wind turbines, or the, I should say, by the, pile driving and the sound used to, sound out to find the solid ground to pile drive into. That's what they've been doing so far. The problem is, even if the sound itself is not harming the whales or killing the whales, it could be contributing to their deaths indirectly. How? Well, the sound is how they communicate.

It drives them into I mean, mean, disorients them. Right?

It disorients them, but, also, it drives them into shipping lanes. Look. If you're being bothered by the sound, you know, it's annoying you. It's driving away your prey, but which is the evidence is what it does in other, offshore winds like in in Scotland. Sure.

It it disrupts their prey.

But I think if you if it annoys you to the point that you basically if you're a human being and there's a loud noise, you're holding your ears, you step in front of a speeding car, well, then that was an indirect cause, wasn't it?

Yeah. Yeah. If it drives you into the busiest shipping lane in the United States, which is the Atlantic, then you it's just as it's just the same as, if it bursts in eardrum.

How do you prove or disprove it, Sterling? How do

you how do you get to the point you say, yes,

this is happening. No, it's not.

Well, there's the tricky part. Right? They they say, oh, we've done a necropsy, and their ears weren't burst. So it clearly wasn't the sound. No.

The point is you can't prove it, and it's it's not the whale's obligation or, frankly, it shouldn't be our obligation to prove it. It should be the company's obligation to show that they are not harming the whales. That's what they do with oil companies and pipelines. Is this pipeline going to disrupt, endangered species? Is it going to pollute the water?

They don't know in advance. They have to do best case estimates. And the fact is we know what the sound is. We know what it does to their prey. We know how it disrupts life in the ocean, and we know how whales navigate.

Putting one more hazard in whales' way, an endangered whales' way, doesn't seem very sound. And when you look at their their plans, it says, yeah, we're gonna cause a lot of, death, not to right whales, but to other protected mammal, sea mammal species. Dolphins, 1,000. Porpoises, 1,000. Other whales, well, yeah, we we might harvest some whales.

Aren't aren't all sea mammals protected in America? Every single one of them.

There's there's there's something called the Sea Mantle Protection Act. Correct.

Before we get to the rest of this podcast, I wanted to let you know about 2 fantastic live podcasts Heartland produces every week. We'd love for you to join us every Thursday at 1 PM EST, noon CST, live for our flagship in the tank podcast. You can watch on the stopping socialism TV channel on YouTube where you can participate in the show in the chat with other fans and also ask questions that we'll address on the air and put up on the screen. And every Friday, also at 1 PM EST and noon CST, you can go to Heartland's main YouTube channel. Just search for the Heartland Institute on YouTube for the new climate realism show.

Heartland's climate team of Anthony Watts, Sterling Burnett, and Linnea Lukin cover the crazy climate news of the week, debunk mainstream media myths about the so called climate crisis, dig into energy policy, and much more. The show often features guests that include some of the leading climate scientists and energy policy experts anywhere in the world. There is no show like it, so become regular live viewers of both of these programs if you are interested in smart, lively, fun, and interactive conversations. We hope to see you there every Thursday Friday afternoons at 1 PM EST and noon CST at the stopping socialism TV and the Heartland Institute channels on YouTube. Oh, yeah.

We're also on Rumble. See you there.

And so how do they process so how do they process

for They get exemptions. They get exemptions. They they they say, oh, well, we we get permits to take certain number of species. It just turns out it's lots and lots of them when it has to do with wind farms. And, the Biden administration is turning a blind eye.

They're they're fostering this.

Aren't there better solutions?

Well, of course.

Like modular nuclear reactors, which we now know the size of an SUV will power a city the size of Chicago. I mean, we figured that, I don't know, maybe 2 to power Chicago. The point being is modular nuclear reactors are the real future here. There are other solutions that don't take up real estate and create death to endangered species. Where am I wrong?

You're not wrong at all. Look. The the for a lot of this, the best solution is to leave the coal and natural gas plants you currently have existing online, not to remove power when you need more power, not less. Correct. To keep reliable power online as opposed to replacing reliable power with unreliable wind, be whether it off whether it's offshore or onshore, with unreliable solar, whether it's offshore you know?

By the way, they now have offshore wind solar farms, and I don't know if you saw it. The world's largest offshore solar farm was just destroyed a couple weeks ago when a storm came through and turned over all the solar panels.

Right. Yeah. We'll give them next time. In Texas have turned them into broken glass from hail stones. Anyhow, who knows?

H Sterling Burnett, PhD, director of the Arthur b Robinson Center on Climate and Environmental Policy at the Harland Institute. Always appreciate your input. These lawsuits always take time, but maybe this time, it'll do the right thing for creatures on this planet. Like the lessons they wanna do, but we actually do. Sir, thank you.

Now

yeah. I was just gonna say right now, all we're trying to do is get a an injunction for them to stop pile driving until they do the proper studies.

Well, that would be a nice thing. Sterling, as always, thank you. Come back anytime. Take care. Really appreciate it.

Just a just an injunction to say time out.